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	<title>Comments on: The Defense Department Gospel</title>
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	<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/</link>
	<description>Writings and rehearsals by Nathan Schneider.</description>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4380</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 13:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I just don&#039;t think that&#039;s how the Bible should work. Listen to the meaning of the passages, don&#039;t just pull them out of context and use them how you choose! Then again, such careless proof-texting is an old and familiar tradition in American folk-theology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s how the Bible should work. Listen to the meaning of the passages, don&#8217;t just pull them out of context and use them how you choose! Then again, such careless proof-texting is an old and familiar tradition in American folk-theology.</p>
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		<title>By: PB</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4364</link>
		<dc:creator>PB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 May 2009 09:45:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes I agree, but Rumsfeld was using the quotes carelessly out of context for their poetic punch.  He did take them from one invasion story (in the broad sense) to another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I agree, but Rumsfeld was using the quotes carelessly out of context for their poetic punch.  He did take them from one invasion story (in the broad sense) to another.</p>
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		<title>By: The Full Armor of God &#124; The Row Boat by Nathan Schneider</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4286</link>
		<dc:creator>The Full Armor of God &#124; The Row Boat by Nathan Schneider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 May 2009 11:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.therowboat.com/?p=949#comment-4286</guid>
		<description>[...] Ticker Quentin Kirk on The Defense Department GospelNathan on The Defense Department Gospeljoe fischer on The Defense Department GospelQuentin Kirk on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Ticker Quentin Kirk on The Defense Department GospelNathan on The Defense Department Gospeljoe fischer on The Defense Department GospelQuentin Kirk on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Quentin Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4146</link>
		<dc:creator>Quentin Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 19:50:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.therowboat.com/?p=949#comment-4146</guid>
		<description>Yes I agree, but Rumsfeld was using the quotes carelessly out of context for their poetic punch.  He did take them from one invasion story (in the broad sense) to another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I agree, but Rumsfeld was using the quotes carelessly out of context for their poetic punch.  He did take them from one invasion story (in the broad sense) to another.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4143</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 18:31:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I tend to think that you&#039;re right. But if there&#039;s any truth to just war theory, I should hope that its adherents thing you&#039;re wrong.

Quentin, I was interested to note how many of the Hebrew Bible passages quoted in the documents turned out not to really be glorifying warfare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to think that you&#8217;re right. But if there&#8217;s any truth to just war theory, I should hope that its adherents thing you&#8217;re wrong.</p>
<p>Quentin, I was interested to note how many of the Hebrew Bible passages quoted in the documents turned out not to really be glorifying warfare.</p>
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		<title>By: joe fischer</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4142</link>
		<dc:creator>joe fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 18:13:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.therowboat.com/?p=949#comment-4142</guid>
		<description>Hi Nathan,

I see the distinction you&#039;re making, but I think that distinction frequently gets conflated.  Certainly it did in the Iraq invasion: the rhetoric turned an aggressive act of war into a defensive necessity against a threatening evil.  And the rhetoric works the other way: a &quot;necessary&quot; war, even one of defense, is easily spun into a crusade of sorts: a moral, righteous obligation (even sanctioned by God).  Perhaps I&#039;m too much the pacifist, but I see the &quot;Just War&quot; and the &quot;Crusade&quot; as negligibly different.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Nathan,</p>
<p>I see the distinction you&#8217;re making, but I think that distinction frequently gets conflated.  Certainly it did in the Iraq invasion: the rhetoric turned an aggressive act of war into a defensive necessity against a threatening evil.  And the rhetoric works the other way: a &#8220;necessary&#8221; war, even one of defense, is easily spun into a crusade of sorts: a moral, righteous obligation (even sanctioned by God).  Perhaps I&#8217;m too much the pacifist, but I see the &#8220;Just War&#8221; and the &#8220;Crusade&#8221; as negligibly different.</p>
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		<title>By: Quentin Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4138</link>
		<dc:creator>Quentin Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 16:38:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.therowboat.com/?p=949#comment-4138</guid>
		<description>Wait there is more:  For me there is soooo much to this subject.  The “Old Testament “ does glorify tribal war (as does the Iliad and the Odysseus and most old sacred books).  Christianity in a universal religion based around the Sermon on the Mount and should get its own bible from the writing, deeds, scholarship, myths, poems, lyrics, of the last two thousand years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wait there is more:  For me there is soooo much to this subject.  The “Old Testament “ does glorify tribal war (as does the Iliad and the Odysseus and most old sacred books).  Christianity in a universal religion based around the Sermon on the Mount and should get its own bible from the writing, deeds, scholarship, myths, poems, lyrics, of the last two thousand years.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4133</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 14:08:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Helpful comments! In the article, I actually tried not to take a radical non-violence position. Maybe you&#039;re reading in stuff from my other writings? I tried to target not so much violence as aggression, which a just war theorist could also agree not to support. Anyway, just war theory speaks of warfare as a tragic necessity of a world stained by sin, not an exercise of pious crusading. I would seriously question any Augustinian or Niebuhrian just war theorist who thought that misreading the Bible to make a war of aggression seem like a holy war was okay. No war is holy, they should say, though some are justifiable according to rigorous ethical standards.

But perhaps I didn&#039;t convey this right in the piece. It&#039;ll run again Monday in Killing the Buddha - perhaps I&#039;ll revise somewhat for that. Any more suggestions are most welcome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Helpful comments! In the article, I actually tried not to take a radical non-violence position. Maybe you&#8217;re reading in stuff from my other writings? I tried to target not so much violence as aggression, which a just war theorist could also agree not to support. Anyway, just war theory speaks of warfare as a tragic necessity of a world stained by sin, not an exercise of pious crusading. I would seriously question any Augustinian or Niebuhrian just war theorist who thought that misreading the Bible to make a war of aggression seem like a holy war was okay. No war is holy, they should say, though some are justifiable according to rigorous ethical standards.</p>
<p>But perhaps I didn&#8217;t convey this right in the piece. It&#8217;ll run again Monday in Killing the Buddha &#8211; perhaps I&#8217;ll revise somewhat for that. Any more suggestions are most welcome.</p>
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		<title>By: Quientin Kirk</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4128</link>
		<dc:creator>Quientin Kirk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 11:47:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.therowboat.com/?p=949#comment-4128</guid>
		<description>Yes, yes, yes to Joe above. 
Most “Christians” I meet are capitalists and patriots of their nation state first and Jesus followers a distant third.   To extend “love,” spiritual concern, to their enemy is the last thing on their mind.  The spirituality of Jesus is for them a distant, pleasant self-righteousness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, yes, yes to Joe above.<br />
Most “Christians” I meet are capitalists and patriots of their nation state first and Jesus followers a distant third.   To extend “love,” spiritual concern, to their enemy is the last thing on their mind.  The spirituality of Jesus is for them a distant, pleasant self-righteousness.</p>
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		<title>By: joe fischer</title>
		<link>http://www.therowboat.com/2009/05/the-defense-department-gospel/comment-page-1/#comment-4118</link>
		<dc:creator>joe fischer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 May 2009 06:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.therowboat.com/?p=949#comment-4118</guid>
		<description>I enjoyed reading your article.

I think there&#039;s one problem in expecting Christians to denounce this sort of &quot;pious&quot; warmongering.  Don&#039;t most Christian denominations in America accept some form of Just War Theory?  Certainly it appears that large numbers of Christians in America are willing to support warfare.  So while many Christians may be appalled that such obvious and specific warmongering, most American Christians don&#039;t reject the very idea of war; most see fighting/supporting war as an acceptable part of a righteous life, or, if you prefer, see war as allowed and occasionally supported by a Christian God.  And that may make these uses of scripture less disgusting to a &quot;Just War&quot; Christian than they are to me (and I presume from your writing, to you).

For Christians who do embrace an ethic of radical nonviolence, of course, the manipulation of scripture in this way is appalling.  But &quot;moderate&quot; Christians aren&#039;t necessarily anti-war Christians.  I&#039;m also appalled by some of the ways in which I see moderate Christianity sanctifying (or at least tacitly condoning support for) warfare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I enjoyed reading your article.</p>
<p>I think there&#8217;s one problem in expecting Christians to denounce this sort of &#8220;pious&#8221; warmongering.  Don&#8217;t most Christian denominations in America accept some form of Just War Theory?  Certainly it appears that large numbers of Christians in America are willing to support warfare.  So while many Christians may be appalled that such obvious and specific warmongering, most American Christians don&#8217;t reject the very idea of war; most see fighting/supporting war as an acceptable part of a righteous life, or, if you prefer, see war as allowed and occasionally supported by a Christian God.  And that may make these uses of scripture less disgusting to a &#8220;Just War&#8221; Christian than they are to me (and I presume from your writing, to you).</p>
<p>For Christians who do embrace an ethic of radical nonviolence, of course, the manipulation of scripture in this way is appalling.  But &#8220;moderate&#8221; Christians aren&#8217;t necessarily anti-war Christians.  I&#8217;m also appalled by some of the ways in which I see moderate Christianity sanctifying (or at least tacitly condoning support for) warfare.</p>
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